Posts by not a captive

40

A serious question for Christians and Non-Christians: How Can Love Hate?

by sabastious in

1 john 4:2 - whoever does not love does not know god, because god is love.. .

what does the statement "god is love" mean?

well quite simply that god = love.

not a captive

P.S.

Dear sab,

Were you raised in "the Truth"? You sound really burned by it all. I tell you what I think. I really think that Jesus had a huge problem overcoming the Old Scriptures that were such a rotten way to learn anything about God. Not that you can't get the picture , kinda, sorta,but not very well. It was a mean rough time.

Jesus was the Logos. He showed us what love is. I don't have to be a Greek scholar to know he was wonderful and if he says that he reflects his father, then I love his Father. And it makes me look at the claims made concerning the role the Hebrew Scriptures have in revealing God to us. I am careful. You seem to be careful but maybe more cynical. I don't think we should jump to conclusions on the Bible--Especially Hebrew.

anyway, I enjoy the thoughts or questions you throw out for discussion.

Maeve

508

Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs

by Mad Sweeney in

the watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.

they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.

" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.

not a captive

I would be glad to forget the Trinity, thank you PSacramento. I just had to quit going to a non-denominational Bible "discussion" that insisted there can be no fellowship with any who do not believe this doctrine. For a while I ignored this matter, but this admonition was so often in their study guide that I figured they really didn't want to study but to indoctrinate like another outfit I know!

Thanks for saying something, PSacramento.

56

Since Leaving "The Truth" Are You Really Happier?

by minimus in

jw
friends

witnesses say that when people leave "the truth", they get involved in a debauched life, misery, and general unhappiness.. they give experiences of some that left the "sweet fellowship" of the "brotherhood" and the awful results because of it.

then, they come back and their lives change 100% for the better!.

have you found life to be miserable and unproductive since "leaving jehovah"?.

not a captive

Happier! YES!

Every day Is like a gift.

And God is still there and there is no foggy gloom between us.

43

What Actually Helped You Leave The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

after seeing some threads about how some think that being direct (like danny hazzard) is the best way to get people out of "the truth" or being very subtle is most effective----i was wondering what exactly made you leave the organization??.

were you more impressed by websites that were informational?

what really got you thinking to leave the religion and its mindset?.

not a captive

God had been kind to me before the Witnesses showed up. I knew He had answered Cornelius' prayer even when he hadn't known everything because he had forgiven me and dealt with me too. So they never were able to make me believe that they were the only ones who know the way to God.

They "Bibled me up" but finally I saw that the last thing the brothers actually cared about was Jehovah's Truth. They were all about vindicating the Faithful and Discreet Slave! They were scared about being thrown out of the synagogue.

Because I was unable to support a certain thing that came up over and over again in the literature I talked to the brothers about it. It was never resolved. Eventually I sent them a letter that said I couldn't do it anymore, that is just sit back and say nothing . They told me I couldn't talk about it to others. But it was the love of Jesus and the confidence that God would deal mercifully with me if I stood up for my conscience toward Him. The brothers told me I couldn't know any truth except through the FS. Since I already knew that God had been merciful before to an ignorant sinner like myself, I figured I should pay more attention to following Jesus than following the Branch's counsel (they wrote me a letter that was not full of Holy Spirit). I decided to move on with the God I had once trusted and begun to know before the WTS way-laid me for 22 years.

It's been since Feb. 2009 for the process to get this far. I sent my letter of disassociation 2 month ago after leaving meetings 12 months ago and ditching all my literature. It was both liberating and traumatic. Meanwhile I have seen so much about how crooked this Organization is.When the brothers asked if I was promoting a sect I told them the last thing I would ever do again is join a religion, much less start one.

I am sad for the friends that don't talk to me because I'm "infectious".

508

Most-Ignored Scriptures by JWs

by Mad Sweeney in

the watchtower has been known for over 130 years as a great scriptural cherry-picker.

they pick out disparate unrelated verses and combine them to support the wackiest of wacky doctrines.. on the other hand there are many scriptures they almost never address, whether because they contradict wt doctrine or because they simply don't have a clue what they mean or how to spin them to the wt advantage.. one of these is revelation 19:1 that mentions a "great crowd" "in heaven.

" the only time it is ever brought up it is dismissed.

not a captive

TTWSYF,

It is the formula that is forced down my throat; I have no problem with the scriptures. The scriptures do so abundantly speak of our salvation through Christ Jesus, and the activities of the H/holy S/spirit and Jehovah's relationship to Jesus. The deity of Jesus' origin is not in doubt. The Holy Spirit works without any hang-up about being a person. So why the formula?

It is undeniable that Jesus came down from his Father in heaven and that he had a life before he came to earth. It is so obvious that the word theos is used in connection with Jesus that it is impossible to say that Jesus is not of G/god. But the demand that rose up in the 4th century is a formula for a belief that is absolutely beyond the authority of a Governing Body to establish. Nothing was broke, there was nothing to fix.

Another thing. What if we were forced to write to one another right now using the same writing systems as the apostles did (Koine Greek, Aramaic or the classical Hebrew) Then we would find ourselves suddenly without recourse to CAPITAL LETTERS. No more "G"od. Only ho theos would distinguish God from other references.

Being around the WTS I am careful to check out translations as best I can. Were there any translators who were not biased one way or the other when they translated into English? No. All I know is the same Greek word for in the KJV at Acts 17:29 and 2 Pet. 1:3,4 got translated two ways: Godhead and divine. It is a biased inflection.It obscures the original text

If-- just once!--Jesus had said "I am God-the-Son" instead of "I am the Son of God" then I would say it that way too. I tend to believe that he had his reasons for not calling himslf the God-Man. As it is I am content to say it as Jesus did. If I obey the Son, honor his Father and do not grieve the Holy Spirit, what wrong is this? What harm is there in saying no more and no less than Jesus said?

I know that I have a saved and sound relationship in Jesus. Long before the Witnesses bibled their way into my life I had come to Jesus. This brow-beating on the Trinity is like having the Society tell me that I have to believe in the Faithful and Discreet Slave in just the way they tell me to.

34

'Not defiled by women in fact they are virgins' ??

by Heartofaboy in

.

can anyone enlighten me what these words at rev 14:4 means?.

this scripture was read at the memorial last night to prove the anointed come from the earth but the 'not defiled by women in fact they are virgins' part was glossed over..

not a captive

It means that these do not get deflowered by a religion at the same time as they give themselves to Jesus the bridegroom.

There is nothing the "Faithful Slave" can say on this scripture because they "deflower" anyone who shows up for the Lamb's wedding. They tell all the 144,000 who are not of thethe Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses that following them is following the Lamb. Make no mistake about it :They require submission to their authority and all teachings evenif anointed brothers or sisters have a conscience that tells them otherwise. It doesn't matter if you think this is the one true religious organization, if it mediates the love you have for the Bridegroom and then it has climbed into bed with you.

So to speak.

When the Bible speaks of women in relation to spiritual things it relates it to religion. Whether a good religion or a bad religion--none can come between you and the Lamb.

18

The four stages of growth of JWD/JWN

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

every now and then i think how nice it would be if the board could go back to the way it was in some earlier time of its existence.

when i was in university one of the main focuses of the counseling program i was in was group development and how it changes over time.

jwn is like any group.

not a captive

I found this place two weeks ago. Not only has it the only safe place to say the things on my heart but I suspect it also saved me from leaving a post that could have hurt me or others down the line--because it disappeared along with the initial topic. Thanks for watching out for us when we are so vulnerable.

I never had read any contrary-to-the-WTS stuff. My departure was because the Society actually has pre-empted Jesus as our Leader and doesn't let us read and thing about the scriptures on our own. And I did realize, and told the brothers, that even if my reading and understanding of the Bible could be shot full of misunderstanding that was on MY lookout. I felt an increasing sadness at every Memorial because it was the most empty meeting of the year. The last one was the worst because the brother who told me in a formal meeting that I must teach the version of the WTS literature even if it ran contrary to the Bible----he gave the talk for the Memorial.

Even though I am glad to get out, it makes me sad that I have no way to talk to my friends to warn them away from this sink hole of life. They are getting old too. But it is sad to live a lie even if you aren't the one who made it up. Maybe it's worse to live a lie that someone else made up for you.

Anyway. Thank you for being a safe haven. May I say "God bless you?"

That is what is on my mind and heart.

32

The Story of Adam and Eve, Sexist, Egotistical and Guilt-Inducing

by sabastious in

put yourself in the mind of an ignorant early human.

he can speak, he can understand his surroundings and can even chart the stars in the night sky.. .

one other thing this man can understand is injustice: when bad things happen to people who didnt do anything to deserve them.. .

not a captive

Adam was the last one standing so maybe that is why he gets all the credit for the fall. If he had not been afraid of standing on his own with God?

That's the challenge each of us face on the way out of the borg.

28

Should true knowledge, potentially dangerous, be released?

by EndofMysteries in

this is so hard, overbearing, just have to vent.

the bible contains a lot of 'hidden manna', and treasure, it's quite literally correct when it says to seek those things out.

i know i need to be patient and our heavenly father will guide me.

not a captive

P.S. On the matter of mind altering substances, some one once told me: Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

Ahhhhhahaha ...................................... ooopps! ----------- is that true?

28

Should true knowledge, potentially dangerous, be released?

by EndofMysteries in

this is so hard, overbearing, just have to vent.

the bible contains a lot of 'hidden manna', and treasure, it's quite literally correct when it says to seek those things out.

i know i need to be patient and our heavenly father will guide me.

not a captive

Mad sweeney, I believe that Jesus was called the Logos because there was no way to write the truth, it could only be caught and lived. He showed us how.

And organized religion is not living by faith but by rules.

EndofMysteries, The FDS misunderstands what the Slave was to do. All any slave can do is to help share food out so that other may do with it as they please. The blood is on ourselves if we abuse it or ignore it. Their crime was in self assuming a role that Jesus did not grant them: they morphed into the TRUE RELIGION. Big change from the 20's when the they said "Religion is a Racket and a Snare". That was the only teaching I know they got right!

Where the carcass is , there the vultures will be gathered. Religion is a dead body.

Here is something that got me in trouble, EndofMysyeries. The Branch busted my chops on this one: Genesis 22

Check this out, I did. Genesis 22 has Jehovah test Abraham by:

A. Telling him to sacrifice and burn Isaac.

B. Telling him offer Isaac as a burnt offering.

Bonus question: Is there a difference and if so why does it matter.

I can tell you, it landed me in a place I never thought I would find myself.